2013.10.28 与安迪-沃霍尔一起去伊朗旅行

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Traveling to Iran With Andy Warhol
An interview with the artist's biographer

By Dan Washburn
OCTOBER 28, 2013
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Bob Colacello
Longtime Vanity Fair contributor Bob Colacello has said he was the Andy Warhol biographer who knew Warhol for more than 15 minutes. He was editor of Warhol's Interview magazine from 1971 to 1983, and became actively involved in all aspects of life—business and social—at The Factory, Warhol’s studio, including procuring celebrity clients for Warhol's famous silkscreened portraits. Colacello's book, Holy Terror: Andy Warhol Close Up, came out in 1990. Not one to be pigeonholed, Colacello also published an expansive biography of Ron and Nancy Reagan in 2004.


In 1976, Colacello traveled to Iran with Warhol. He now lives on New York's Upper East Side and gave this interview by phone:

First, can you describe what brought about your trip to Iran with Andy?

Well, it happened because we had gotten to know the Iranian ambassador to the United Nations, Fereydoon Hoveyda, and he actually arranged for Andy to do a portrait of the Shabanu, or the Empress, Farah Pahlavi. So the purpose of the trip was basically for Andy to take polaroids of her, which then would be made into portraits.

What was your general impression of Iran at that time before you went?

I think my impression of Iran was different than the general impression of Iran. I was criticized for running an interview with the Empress in Interview magazine. Andy's politics were, you know, he was a democrat, but he also was fascinated by world leaders. He had already done the portraits of Golda Meir and Willy Brandt of Germany. We were trying very hard to get Imelda Marcos to commission portraits because we thought she would get thousands done for every post office in the Philippines.

When we went [to Iran], it was obvious that while you probably couldn't stand on a street corner and denounce the Shah, Iran seemed to be a rather free society. Particularly women were free. Tehran, anyway, seemed to be a largely westernized city, or modernized city, I should say, because you definitely felt you were in the Middle East — prosperous, thriving, and growing. So many of the people we met — admittedly we met mostly the upper classes — were Christians, Jews and Baha'is, all of whom were forced out or killed when the Ayatollahs came in. I mean, my point of view on Iran is coming from a different place than I think a lot of others.

Were you surprised by anything you saw there?

I was surprised to the degree of how open the society was and modern. And, you know, on the superficial level, the life in the northern part of Iran then was rather enchanted because these people were successful and making money.

We went to a polo match. We went to a state dinner that the brother of Fereydoun Hoveyda, who was the prime minister, Amir Abbas Hoveyda — it just happened while we were there — he had a state dinner for Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan. And that was fascinating, but still kind of haunting. I remember the toast Bhutto and Hoveyda made to each other about the eternal friendship of Pakistan and Iran, and both of those men were gone in a couple years time. Hoveyda assassinated by the Ayatollahs and Bhutto executed by the Pakistani generals.

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We went one day to the souq, or bazaar, which was in southern Tehran and there were a few women in chadors. We went to Isfahan and there were a few more people in chadors, but everything was totally peaceful, and prosperous and clean. Everything seemed normal and nice. I never heard the word "shiites" in the 10 days we were there.

How did you describe what you saw in Iran to your friends?

It reminded me of Beverly Hills, except that they had Persian carpets by their pools. Caviar was plentiful, as it was in the Iranian Embassy in the U.S. Hoveyda ran the most sophisticated embassy in New York in terms of the social life because he had been a film critic for Cahiers du cinéma in Paris. So he would give dinners for François Truffaut, Rudolf Nureyev — many cultural figures — people like Lena Horne and Sidney Lumet. I remember one of the first times I met Rupert Murdoch was at a dinner there. It'd be a mix of diplomats, business people, socialites, entertainment people, artists. I mean his parties were great — they were really interesting.

What did Andy think of Iran?

Well, Andy was like, "Oh gee, oh wow, how glamorous." He loved the fact that we could call room service at the Hilton Hotel and get caviar all day long for $10 an order. We met Barry Goldwater in the lobby of the Hilton. Again, Andy's politics are different. I was republican and Andy was a democrat — we would kind of tease each other about it. Barry Goldwater, I remember we thought he was so good looking. He had the white hair. He was wearing a white suit with a black bolo tie, white shirt. He came over and introduced himself to Andy, which was sort of remarkable because the press always portrayed Barry Goldwater as this ultra right-winger, this John Bircher, and they always left out the part that his family was half Jewish and they work in the retail business, which would spoil the John Bircher label people tried to pin on him.

All in all, we had a good time. It was the summertime and the heat was a little much for Andy. Not in northern Tehran which was sort of in the foothills of the mountains, so it was cooler there. But when we went to Isfahan we were dazzled by the beauty of the city, of course, but it was so hot that Andy just couldn't really take it. We had to cancel our planned visit to Shiraz the following day.

We had a great time. The food was fabulous and, you know, the Iranian people are sort of like Mediterranean people — very hospitable, very warm, and tolerant, and embracing.

When you told your friends in New York you were traveling to Iran, what kind of reactions did you get?

The more doctrinaire liberals or leftists didn't approve if the idea. But there was a lot of business between the U.S. and Iran. The Hilton Hotel was packed with Americans, and French, and Germans, and British. It wasn't that unusual to go. Don't forget the Iranian embassy in New York was the leading embassy on a social level. I mean we met the Chinese ambassador and we didn't even have relations with China then. Hoyveda would often bring five or six ambassadors from the U.N. from different countries to lunch at The Factory.

What did you think about the art scene in Iran?

We really weren't taken to any galleries or artist studios. But in the New York art world there was a sense that, or definitely knowledge that, the Empress was building this museum and buying lots of paintings.

The funny thing about Andy is that he wasn't, we didn't really see that many artists. Again, we were criticized for this, but we saw a lot more sort of society people. Andy was really selling a lot of these commissioned portraits and that was basically what was supporting Interview magazine and allowing Andy to have a staff of 20 people working on his various creative projects.

So, if art wasn't necessarily part of the itinerary, what did Andy like to do while traveling in a country like Iran?

I have to tell you, Andy liked to stay in his hotel room and call New York, order room service. He basically waited for Fred Hughes, his manager, or me to tell him what to do.

I mean, we went to Mexico, for example, in 1972. We went to see the pyramids outside of Mexico City. Andy refused to get out of the car. He said, "Oh, they're just a pile of old rocks." Andy, it seemed me, did not want to contaminate his pop vision with too much history.

But he knew his art history. He pretended he didn't for the press and the general public, because it was all part of his pop image, you know, playing it dumb, but he wasn't. I mean I think Fred and I wanted to go to Isfahan and Shiraz more than Andy did, but that's not to say that was just because it was Iran. He would be the same way in Paris or Rome. He basically wanted to, he liked to go to fancy restaurants and he wanted to make money. He basically considered them business trips and the idea was to sell as much art as possible. So most of our time was spent with rich collectors.

Also because of Interview we saw a lot of people in fashion, a lot of models. Andy loved that whole world, and movie people and celebrities and all of that was part of what Interview covered. So it all kind of fit together.

How did people react to Andy in Iran?

The people we saw, again were mostly the sophisticated slice of society. They were people who had spent time in America and Europe on a regular basis, so they knew who Andy was. I mean walking in the streets, Andy was strange looking with his white wig and his pallor, but that could happen anywhere. I think people treated Andy with a kind of respect and curiosity. They wanted to meet him.


Andy always gravitated towards the younger people. He'd take pictures and have his tape recorder and chat them up. So that was pretty much the same, and most of the younger people were in their 20s, had gone to college in Washington or Los Angeles or New York, so they didn't seem that different from American kids. That age, and that whole generation loved the idea of Andy Warhol and it was the disco era, you know? If anything, people asked us things like, "What is Studio 54 like?" or "Can you get me into Studio 54 when I come to New York in the fall?"

Was there any fallout after you returned from the trip?

The trip wasn't really publicized. This was a private trip. But among friends, among people in the art world, there was this constant back and forth. On one hand all these artists wanted to sell stuff to the Iranians — they wanted to make money. Andy wasn't the only one. On the other hand, their politics were on the liberal side. So I think they were torn.

Did you get the feeling you were there for a unique moment in Iran’s history?

Yeah, I think we were there at a time that, kind of looking back, was a golden age for Iran. And seeing the Iran Modern show I realized all the more what kind of creative energy that was there, that there was fantastic work being done dealing with this balance between the West and the East and between traditional culture and modernization and globalization. Globalization wasn't so much a word then, but this is something the whole world is trying to deal with. How do you retain your traditions and history while at the same time being part of this global internet website world? And I think it was wonderful moment in Iran. I'm glad I was there to see it. I would love to go back. The Iranian people are wonderful, and Persian culture is incredible.

This post first appeared at The Asia Society, an Atlantic partner site.

Dan Washburn is managing editor at Asia Society Online. He has written for Slate, Foreign Policy, Financial Times and The Economist and is founding editor of Shanghaiist.




与安迪-沃霍尔一起去伊朗旅行
对这位艺术家的传记作者的采访

作者：丹-沃什伯恩
2013年10月28日

鲍勃-科拉切洛
长期的《名利场》撰稿人Bob Colacello曾说他是认识沃霍尔超过15分钟的安迪-沃霍尔传记作者。他在1971年至1983年期间担任沃霍尔《访谈》杂志的编辑，并积极参与沃霍尔工作室--"工厂 "的各方面生活--商业和社会活动，包括为沃霍尔著名的丝网印刷肖像画争取名人客户。科拉切洛的书《神圣的恐怖》。安迪-沃霍尔特写》于1990年问世。科拉切洛不是一个被放鸽子的人，他还在2004年出版了一本关于罗恩和南希-里根的广泛的传记。


1976年，科拉切洛与沃霍尔一起到伊朗旅行。他现在住在纽约的上东区，通过电话接受了这次采访。

首先，你能描述一下你和安迪去伊朗旅行的原因吗？

嗯，这是因为我们已经认识了伊朗驻联合国大使费雷敦-霍维达，他实际上安排安迪为沙巴努或皇后法拉赫-巴列维画了一幅肖像。因此，此行的目的基本上是让安迪为她拍摄宝丽来照片，然后将其制作成肖像画。

在你去之前，当时你对伊朗的总体印象是什么？

我想我对伊朗的印象和对伊朗的普遍印象是不同的。我因为在《采访》杂志上刊登了对皇后的采访而受到批评。安迪的政治是，你知道，他是一个民主人士，但他也对世界领导人很着迷。他已经为德国的戈尔达-梅尔和威利-勃兰特拍摄了肖像。我们非常努力地想让伊梅尔达-马科斯委托画像，因为我们认为她会为菲律宾的每个邮局画上几千张。

当我们去[伊朗]时，很明显，虽然你可能不能站在街角谴责国王，但伊朗似乎是一个相当自由的社会。特别是妇女是自由的。无论如何，德黑兰似乎是一个大体上西方化的城市，或者说现代化的城市，我应该说，因为你绝对感觉到你是在中东--繁荣、兴旺和发展。我们遇到的许多人--诚然，我们遇到的主要是上层阶级--是基督徒、犹太人和巴哈教徒，他们都在阿亚图拉执政时被逼走或被杀。我的意思是，我对伊朗的看法与我认为其他很多人的看法不同。

你对你在那里看到的东西感到惊讶吗？

我对社会的开放程度和现代化程度感到惊讶。而且，你知道，从表面上看，当时伊朗北部地区的生活相当令人陶醉，因为这些人都很成功，都在赚钱。

我们去看了一场马球比赛。我们去参加了费雷敦-霍维达（Fereydoun Hoveyda）的兄弟，也就是总理阿米尔-阿巴斯-霍维达（Amir Abbas Hoveyda）的国宴--我们在那里的时候刚好--他为巴基斯坦总理佐勒菲卡尔-阿里-布托举行了国宴。那很吸引人，但仍然有点令人不安。我记得布托和霍韦达互相敬酒，谈论巴基斯坦和伊朗的永恒友谊，而这两个人在几年后都不在了。霍维达被阿亚图拉们暗杀，布托被巴基斯坦将军们处决。

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有一天，我们去了德黑兰南部的souq（或称集市），有几个穿罩袍的妇女。我们去了伊斯法罕，那里有更多穿罩袍的人，但一切都很平静，繁荣而干净。一切都显得正常而美好。我们在那里的10天里，我从未听到 "什叶派 "这个词。

你如何向你的朋友描述你在伊朗看到的一切？

它让我想起了比佛利山庄，除了他们的游泳池旁有波斯地毯。鱼子酱很丰富，就像在伊朗驻美国大使馆一样。霍维达在社交生活方面管理着纽约最复杂的大使馆，因为他曾是巴黎《电影杂志》的影评人。因此，他将为弗朗索瓦-特吕弗、鲁道夫-努里耶夫--许多文化名人--像莉娜-霍恩和西德尼-鲁梅特这样的人举行晚宴。我记得我第一次见到鲁伯特-默多克是在那里的晚宴上。那是一个外交官、商人、社会名流、娱乐界人士、艺术家的组合。我的意思是，他的聚会很好--他们真的很有趣。

安迪对伊朗有什么看法？

嗯，安迪说，"哦，天哪，哦，哇，真有魅力。" 他喜欢这样一个事实，即我们可以在希尔顿酒店的客房服务部打电话，以10美元一个订单的价格全天获得鱼子酱。我们在希尔顿酒店的大厅里见到了巴里-戈德华特。同样，安迪的政治立场也不同。我是共和党人，而安迪是民主党人--我们会有点取笑对方的意思。巴里-戈德沃特，我记得我们认为他是那么的好看。他有一头白发。他穿着白色西装，打着黑色领带，穿着白色衬衫。他走过来向安迪介绍自己，这有点引人注目，因为媒体总是把巴里-戈德沃特描绘成这个极端的右翼分子，这个约翰-伯彻，他们总是忽略了他的家庭有一半是犹太人，他们在零售业工作，这将破坏人们试图贴在他身上的约翰-伯彻标签。

总而言之，我们玩得很开心。当时正值夏季，炎热的天气让安迪有点受不了。在德黑兰北部就不一样了，那里在山脚下，所以比较凉快。但是当我们去伊斯法罕的时候，我们当然被这个城市的美丽所吸引，但是天气太热了，安迪真的受不了。我们不得不取消了第二天去设拉子的计划。

我们玩得很开心。食物很美味，而且，你知道，伊朗人有点像地中海人--非常好客，非常热情，宽容，而且包容。

当你告诉你在纽约的朋友你要去伊朗旅行时，你得到的是什么样的反应？

比较教条的自由主义者或左派不赞成这个想法。但美国和伊朗之间有很多生意。希尔顿酒店里挤满了美国人、法国人、德国人和英国人。去的人也不是那么稀奇。别忘了，伊朗驻纽约大使馆是社会层面上的主要大使馆。我的意思是，我们见到了中国大使，而当时我们甚至没有与中国建立关系。霍伊维达经常会带着五六个来自不同国家的联合国大使到 "工厂 "吃午饭。

你对伊朗的艺术界有什么看法？

我们真的没有被带到任何画廊或艺术家的工作室。但在纽约的艺术界，有一种感觉，或者说肯定知道，皇后正在建造这个博物馆，并购买了很多画。

关于安迪的有趣的事情是，他没有，我们没有真正看到那么多艺术家。同样，我们为此受到批评，但我们看到更多的社会人士。安迪真的卖出了很多这些委托的肖像画，这基本上是支持《采访》杂志和允许安迪有一个20人的员工，为他的各种创意项目工作。

那么，如果艺术不一定是行程的一部分，安迪在伊朗这样的国家旅行时喜欢做什么？

我必须告诉你，安迪喜欢呆在他的酒店房间里，给纽约打电话，叫客房服务。他基本上等着他的经理弗雷德-休斯或我告诉他该做什么。

我的意思是，我们去了墨西哥，比如说，在1972年。我们去看了墨西哥城外的金字塔。安迪拒绝从车里出来。他说，"哦，它们只是一堆旧石头。" 安迪，在我看来，并不想用太多的历史来污染他的流行视觉。

但他知道他的艺术史。他对媒体和公众假装不知道，因为这都是他流行形象的一部分，你知道，装傻充愣，但他不是。我的意思是，我认为弗雷德和我比安迪更想去伊斯法罕和设拉子，但这并不是说这只是因为那是伊朗。他在巴黎或罗马也会这样。他基本上想，他喜欢去高级餐厅，他想赚钱。他基本上认为这些旅行是商业旅行，其目的是尽可能多地出售艺术品。所以我们的大部分时间都是和富有的收藏家在一起。

也因为《采访》，我们看到了很多时尚界的人，很多模特。安迪喜欢整个世界，电影人和名人以及所有这些都是《采访》报道的一部分。所以这一切都很合拍。

人们在伊朗对安迪的反应如何？

我们看到的人，也大多是社会中成熟的那部分人。他们是经常在美国和欧洲生活的人，所以他们知道安迪是谁。我的意思是，走在街上，安迪戴着白色假发，脸色苍白，看起来很奇怪，但这在任何地方都可能发生。我认为人们以一种尊重和好奇心对待安迪。他们想见见他。


安迪总是倾向于年轻的人。他会拍照，用他的录音机和他们聊天。所以这几乎是一样的，大多数年轻人都是20多岁，在华盛顿、洛杉矶或纽约上过大学，所以他们看起来和美国孩子没有什么不同。那个年代，那一代人都喜欢安迪-沃霍尔的想法，那是迪斯科时代，你知道吗？如果有的话，人们会问我们这样的问题："Studio 54是什么样的？"或者 "当我秋天来纽约时，你能让我进入Studio 54吗？"

你们从旅行中回来后有什么影响吗？

这次旅行并没有真正公开化。这是一次私人旅行。但在朋友之间，在艺术界的人之间，有这种不断的来回。一方面，所有这些艺术家都想把东西卖给伊朗人，他们想赚钱。安迪并不是唯一的一个。另一方面，他们的政治倾向于自由派。所以我认为他们很纠结。

你有没有感觉到你在那里经历了伊朗历史上的一个独特时刻？

是的，我认为我们在那里的时候，回过头来看，是伊朗的一个黄金时代。看到 "伊朗现代 "展览，我更加意识到那里有什么样的创造性的能量，有奇妙的工作正在处理西方和东方之间的平衡，传统文化和现代化以及全球化之间的平衡。当时全球化还不是一个词，但这是整个世界都在努力处理的事情。你如何保留你的传统和历史，同时成为这个全球互联网网站世界的一部分？而且我认为这是伊朗的美妙时刻。我很高兴我在那里看到了它。我很想再去。伊朗人民很好，波斯文化也很不可思议。

这篇文章首先出现在亚洲协会，一个大西洋的合作伙伴网站。

丹-沃什伯恩是亚洲协会在线的执行编辑。他曾为《石板》、《外交政策》、《金融时报》和《经济学人》撰稿，是《上海人》的创始编辑。